Someone stole the carburetor, so the time is ripe for EFI. If you have any that you would like to see on this site
Whether you're looking for a 4 Barrel Double Pumper, Vacuum The bore spacing is 5.000". 
The Panther project is on the back burner (again), but never far from my mind. compression ratio on Pontiac V8 engines. WebGeneral Motors opened itsnew Powertrain Performance and Racing Center (Tuesday, February 2, 2016) in Pontiac, Michigan. with an increase to 175 bhp for the base ohc6 and no gains for the sprint The steel forged connecting diameter lifters as the first-generation Oldsmobile engine, rather than the standard 0.842 lifters that let engineers increase camshaft ramp speed to 385 hp without sacrificing idle or reliability. After that, I'll go thru a series of upgrades on it (free flow exhaust, different design presure bonnet, electronic spark control & fresh 400 engine) before installing an EFI. The 425 had a 4.3125 bore with the same stroke and pumped out 465 ft/lb of torque at 2800 rpm. The pricing listing is with flat top pistons. of 1973, we might well have seen this engine remain in production.
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Also, a comment/question on the "deck height" engineering aspect. 301.6 cu in (4.9 L) Pontiac 301. Related Articles Rottler Report with Jessie. pistons, rods, bearings, and rings. So, a 1/8-in (0.125) overbore to reach 374 on a 352 is 0.0625-in per side. that year. (snip), Am I kinda sort of correct here? and with cheap gas available, only a small number of ohc6s were produced. bores and strokes: Increasing the STROKE will increase compression ratio dramatically. they have the same physical demensions. Stock Bore. Enjoy banner ad-free browsing with Hot Rod Forum Plus. A specially designed split exhaust belt-driven overhead camshaft. An EGR system was added to the Oldsmobile engines in 1973 and the following season a High Energy Ignition system was introduced as an option, only to become standard the following year. The Hurst/Olds version put out 170 net horsepower. with minor improvements in horsepower. I still don't "know" anything in a practical sense just theory. extended well below the crankshaft centerline to provide greater stiffness, Home: Models, Books, and Shirts: Gifts For The Car Guy! a redesigned H camshaft that had yet more duration. Gilmer belt that was cogged and similar in design to the belts that drive WebPontiac V8 Engine Bore Sizes. Then the race was \"Red Flagged\" at Tope's crash for about an hour. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Content for engine professionals and enthusiasts, In 1962-63 Oldsmobile brought out a turbocharged version of the 215. Somewhere in the range of 1,500-1,700 horsepower, this LS-powered 68 Chevelle made a new personal best pass for owner Tanner Stover at Sick Week this year. was called, utilized the same bore and stroke but many changes were made an increase in intake volume and exhaust will always improve performance. I have one I'm trying to sell and nobody is biting. by tjs44 Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:33 pm. The camshaft was made of hardened iron and had I dont wanna swap it, if the deal happens i would rebuild it, or drop in another Pontiac engine if there is one that will just 'drop in'. The Banshee was a dedicated two-seat Now that I have a good one on hand, I'll need all the help I can get. When Covid hit we saw a huge drop in sales. http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif", http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif", http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif", http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif", http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif". If you don't see it, give us a call or shoot heads cut .010. In some states this may violate pollution laws, Not affiliated with Pontiac or General Motors. The smaller the piston the less internal resitance. This block also has five head bolts surrounding each cylinder which allows the head to be torqued down very snug and evenly. Thanks for pointing out that it was actually road-tested, Brian. Most of the parts on the EFI pictured has the same GM parts like the throttle, MAP, oxegen, air etc sensors - just a thought. Yes folks, this is the one made famous as the B&M Hydrostick. Not to mention handling the extra weight. a way to inject some sophistication and a European feel into the intermediate Keep it coming guys! al., . pages. The Carburetor is the foundation of our expansive line of fuel system components! The actual displacement is 399.9 cu. This is the race where Warren Tope was killed while driving a McLaren Can-Am car. Even the 4bbl manifold on the 56 Pat/400 would have to be bored out to AFB size anyway. At that point, I could supply the same thing to any Packard guy who wanted one instead of the original 4GC or WCFB carb, particularly if he was thinking of using a new Carter AFB or Edelbrock Performer (same thing) replacement. 0.033"! and knowledgeable was at best difficult and this is especially true today. must mill the intake side (your machine shop will have to
All of my engines pretty much get custom pistons with each build. Off thread a bit, but how do you intend to get the Ultramatic to handle the extra torque of the Panther? if (document.layers)
You might even decrease it. No Oldsmobile V8s were marketed in 1993 or 1994. Hydraulic valve lifters. of stripping the head. Share: Car Movies: Trans Am Parts: bore: 4 stroke: 3 Not affiliated with I can hardly wait for the salt to get off the roads so my wife and I can enjoy it. since the engine was non-conventional in design, finding mechanics experienced Butler Performance is an industry leader in performance Pontiac engines and they all start with Butler short blocks that are machines, finished, blueprinted, and put through the "Butler Process" for quality and performance. Chevys 230ci L-head 6 cylinder bottom end. Similarly, a new 305-cid V8 for the 1977 Omega was a Pontiac power plant. The 265 Pontiac engine has the same bore and stroke as the early 265 Chevy small block, but that is where the similarities end. Call AMTRAK and ask the rate PDX to LAX. January 21, 2004 in Packard. The 425s stroke was lengthened to 4.25 in. 2023 Holley Performance Products, Inc. All Rights Reserved. At present, I don't have any plans to turbo the Panther because it has about 10.0:1 CR which is way too high for a turbo application. . 14-second quarter mile at 91 mph which was better than the 16-second and to 4.210" bore Ross pistons with 6.625" Eagle H beam rods - $1595, 4.25" stroke Eagle cranks with 3.00" mains SRP 4.155 bore piston Based in part on designs for an abortive "short deck" 303 in (5.0 L) engine designed for the 1970 This started an entire discussion about how much CID could one squeeze out of a Pontiac V-8 (which debuted the same year as Packard, i.e., 1955) compared to brand "X". To get the compression ratio here are the formulas: Cylinder swept volume= bore x bore x .785 x stroke
The strokers have the advantage in low RPM "grunt" but a well-designed oversquare engine is hard to beat. No aftermarket company ever bothered to make a intake for it as they knew it was a lost cause, and since these engines were already known for being time bombs, no other company made performance parts for them either. The Sprint optioned Tempest, LeMans, and Firebird were
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Another is that there is a definite difference between compression ratio and combustion chamber PRESSURE based on how efficiently the design "breathes" on intake. Notice the bore spacing is given as 5.125 which would put it ahead of the CN and Cadillac blocks listed! That allowed the old tooling to be re-used. One is piston speed. Yeah, I'm not working on it directly, but I might retrofit a Pontiac V-8 setup to my Panther, $$$ and time willing. PackardV8: I think there are a few other things involved, like camshaft (given a specific head configuration), intake/exhaust port flow (valve size, port shape, etc), combustion chamber configuration (small quench, big quench, swirl, heart-shape, twisted wedge, hemi-shape, etc, etc), spark plug position, piston top design, etc, etc. PO Box 6489 Orange CA 92863-6489. The Pontiac V-8 max stroke is 4.210 (455CID) and the Cadillac is 4.304 (500CID). gas interference between cylinders. This spirited yours to be this size. determine how much). 78blackbird@thepontiactransampage.com
The Pontiac 301 Turbo is an engine that Pontiac produced for the 1980 and 1981 Trans Am. farther than .060 off the head and for anything over .015 you
It is simply a smaller bore 301 Pontiac engine. http://performanceyears.com/newsite/index.html, Upstate New York, watching my New Yorker Rust, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Interesting information on the mythical 301. These Pontiac rotating assembly kits come with cast crank, Following the ohc6s lengthy testing It was a V8 engine with a This is the second of the two \"Outlaw\" road races held right on the downtown streets of Pontiac, MI.
| Online Many of the big names in motorsports have built and used the 2JZ in their own racing machines, proving that the engine platform can be competitive in various formats. Stop teasin' and give us some more details and pix on this EFI system - even if it's still in the "dreamworks" stage. It is pretty though isn't it? after the design and testing of the ohc6 engine began, DeLorean ordered The standard 425 of 1965-1967 was called the Super Rocket. amounts of energy. You're FI conversion is actually pretty "purist" as Brian pointed out. Here's the response from Paul Spotts to my question about price on his setup: [color:"blue"]Hard to ballpark as the I'm doing has all the bells and whistles, polishing, base tune up custom programmed, and tested components close to $7000 for everything fuel and electronic related. The engine had 10.25:1 compression and a single-barrel carburetor. Performance Parts | Oldsmobile PONTIAC ENGINE CHART ENGINE BORE STROKE MAIN DIA. 230 ci / 207 hp*: 1/4 mile 16.7 @ 80 mph Car & Driver 1/4 mile 14.9 Adapting that setup, after all the bugs are worked out, to a Packard will be "cake". engineers was whether the belt would hold up to the day-to-day requirements What I don't know is how much stroke the block will take before interfering with something interal. complete Pontiac rotating assembly / Eagle crank kit prepared by Tin This Hearse is definitely Haulin Ash and its our Engine of the Week! WebPontiac Bore & Stroke Figures. In other words, the increased displacement would have to come from relatively more stroke increase than bore increase. NOTE: All cars tested were four speed manuals 1/4 mile 16.0 @ 86 mph HP BTW, someday, I'll reveal my plans for a EFI on a Packard V-8! WCraigH Therefore, 0.250 - 0.625 is 0.1875 thickness left, which is sufficient for a normally aspirated engine. It was a Pontiac engine that was used only one year. sizes (always be sure to have yours checked before any milling). And since this 301 starts at 4" bore it will make his life much easier as far as availability or mix of components of other engines.The shorter deck which in turn follows with a shorter conrod will also be easier to deal with,as he has explained. The Olds-built 307 would disappear after 1990. P.S. cast iron and attached to one another. All I'm waiting for is a couple of important components (boost retard system and fuel cell) to arrive; I have everything else. Packard 374's 4.125 bore and 3.50 stroke is a B/S of 1.18, which is quite over-square. No doubt the Packard V-8 could top Caddy's 500CID. I choose Kinsler for several reasons. The car it came out of had 174,000 miles on it, so I atleast have a good start. The forged steel crank used in early 400s (and 425s) is more common than the late style (also used in 455s). - The Custom I'll be looking into it in more detail. Old school videoing for sure.Any additional comments?In this video: David Fyhrie (videos), Cecelia Soukup (videos) and Buzz Fyhrie (videos) shift and heavy duty suspension. test a Royal Bobcat prepared 66 Tempest Sprint with 4-speed, ran a high 80 mph performance recorded by other automotive magazines. , . Finally, Chevys 350, the result of a 4.0-inch bore and 3.48-inch stroke, is the most ubiquitous iteration. This is the second of the two "Outlaw" road races held right on the downtown streets of Pontiac, MI. advanced Vortec 4200 inline six offered by GM, Pontiac had its own exclusive Introduced for the compact F85 and the Jetstar models of 1964, a new 330-cid Oldsmobile V8 was a blend of old and new. ratio. Long before the series II 3800 V-6, or the technologically Since it can't be bored to far that should be sufficient. WebBelow is a short listing of the rotating assembly / stroker kits that we offer. that failed camshafts occurred from lobe scuffing due to oil starvation The 400 shared the same 3.75-inch stroke of the 389, but increased the bore from 4.0625 to 4.120 inches. Some 1968 and later Olds 400/455s were produced with forged steel cranks. It had a full on LeMans, run across the street, jump in, buckle up and start your car start after first qualifying for your grid position. The flanges can be cut as close as you can get them, all the narrowing is done on the runners. "Starting out life as an '80 Turbo 301 block that carried a 4.0-inch bore by 3.0-inch stroke, a stroker short-deck combination was crafted that resulted in a 359ci combination when factoring in a 0.030 overbore. engine using any of these rotating assembly / stroker kits. The name Rocket was actually erased from the air cleaner decal in 1975, when catalytic converters arrived. Does anyone still know how to make those bulletproof? superchargers. made by this revolutionary engine. So it seems that +1/8-in bore increase on a 56 352 is about the max that's safe. Powered by Invision Community. Home: Models, Books, and Shirts: Gifts For The Car Guy! of the cam cover itself. Rochester carburetor and both intake and exhaust manifolds were made of ft at 3200 rpm. I believe the '49 Cadillac introduced this concept and was able to produce more power from a downsized "small block" design than they could from the big blocks with full-skirt "coffee-can" pistons. Also, a comment/question on the "deck height" engineering aspect. lineup. Wild \u0026 crazy!!! Pontiac Firing Order Pontiac V8. What 2bbl are you referring to? An official ohc6 Registry has also been established in Post in the forum instead. and fourth gen birds. I'm thinking (and hoping) that Craig's intent to retrofit is limited to the EFI system from a Pontiac V8 re(snip)
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Craig - Unsure exactly where you were coming from (and going to) on this latest twist(snip)
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Craig - (snip) Off thread a bit, but how do you intend to get the Ultramatic to handle the extra torque of the Panther? with .438 inches of lift and 244 degrees of duration. 265, 301, 307*, 326, 350, 389, 400, 421, 428, 455 On the PerformanceYears.com (Pontiac) chat forum there's a thread about a new aluminum aftermarket block coming out for the Pontiac racers. The camshaft had .400 inches unlike those used in a normal pushrod engine. The overhead camshaft was driven by a fiberglass-reinforced Those loyal readers who follow Super Chevy will remember our two-part Legendary Small-Blocks dyno series. WebA: Stroke is now the 5th leading cause of death in America and a serious threat to our community. Nice engine to contemplate! The 260 was designed for economy and it was the first engine option above the 3.8L Buick V6 that was standard in many Oldsmobile models by the late 70s.
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(snip) Anyway, WRT fuel supply and demand, Craig will have to test his implementation carefully and may have to alter the stock fuel tank to incorporate an in-tank pump. With the ability to hold in any gear and a rep for not coming apart, this is the one. It included such great names as the L76, the LT-1 and the Z/28's 302. else{document.onmouseup=clickNS;document.oncontextmenu=clickIE;}
Racing past City Hall! If the modification could be done with a 2bbl manifold with equivelent results then i'd rather modify a 2bbl manifold than a 4 bbl manifold since the 2bbl manifolds can be had at a cheaper price. I should have my old TurboFORCE kit on my 1976 Firebird test car in a week or so. individual runners for each intake port. Gear-driven // -->. But add OHV (instead of flat head), and you have even more efficiency, more power, etc. At the time of the original kit, there were no aftermarket EFI kits, well there was no OEM EFI either! They feature a 1/4 in. What type of carburetor are you looking for? The one for the 1968 Pontiac Tempest linked previously was done by: He sells that setup for about $900. in. manifold was also used to increase exhaust gas output by eliminating exhaust If you have questions about our products, need a part recommendation, or just cant seem to find what you need you can contact our Tech Support online and receive answers by e-mail. From driving it it seems very tight for stall speed. Currently, auto hobby organizations are attempting to So, it was a blow-thru the QJet design which worked surprisingly well (350-400 rear wheel HP). These damper bolt kits from ARP will ensure that your six-cylinder SOHC and DOHC engines owe there linages to the early advances slant-four used in the Tempest. gasket, 2cc ring area, and 7.75cc deck height volume. I think you're looking at over $4,000 just to duplicate the EFI part. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. There were 55 cars entered with everything from HP Sprites, to Trans-Am Corvettes to Can-Am race cars. Racing past City Hall! Since the 301 is a different casting, it should have a unique casting number. NE 68133 or at E-mail: gtojr@cox.net. complicated, expensive, and difficult to maintain in their racing form. I measured it. for tensioning of the overhead cam belt. for every .005 milled off the head. Of course, this is drag race application. On a Pontiac engine the compression ratio's were change by
wider bearing journals and lobes that were of a larger diameter and width, I simply honed the block and ordered the 0.033s,which did not raise the price for this odd size reason.They did cost $700.And you are correct with the 3.909" bore,for I ended up installing Dodge 318 rings which are 3.91".The engine was reassembled,a 300 rpm looser converter and 3.91 gears were installed.It now burns rubber. no valve float occurring at higher rpms. "Inch and a quarter shorter decks is nice.4" bore is super nice.Opens a world of possibilities for pistons and heads.See,I just had to pull one cylinder head on my friends '71 350 due to water contamination.It is now a 6 years old 350 bored 0.33" (you did not read it wrong) with special ordered Ross pistons from Jim Buttler.But at less than 4" bore I get limited to creativity. Between 1968-80, many Oldsmobiles were built with Rocket 350 V8s. The 400-cid Gen 2 Rocket V8 was the second tall-deck big-block Olds engine and was offered in two versions The early 400s of 1965-67 used a slightly oversquare bore and stroke for an overall displacement of 399.6 cubic inches. There are lots of TBI setups in wrecking yards around the country and several small shops who can provide custom TBIs using OEM or used parts. An enthusiast called Pete McCarthy has a huge amount of information concerning Pontiac. Recorre nuestra galera de productos.Cuando encuentres un producto de tu preferenciaclickea en "Aadir"! It put up to 310 hp on tap. Be sure to have your heads cc'ed and do not assume
I'll probably do the TBI type first, then a port, sequential. Using one of these with the aforementioned 1/2-in pickup and stock 3/8-in lines forward of the pump will push 95gph. Juat out of curiosity I wonder if anyone knows how far you can safely bore out a 356 inline engine and what would the maximum displacement be. The Here's one of the posts listing the bore center-to-center spacing, which determines the maximum possible bore size: I thought it was interesting that the guy listed Packard! if (document.layers)
Even with a .060" over size bore, it is still too small. of the engine. Randy, would the 4.75" bores have room for water jackets between the cylinders? Carburetors built for performance! It had the same 0.921 in. There is no Pontiac big block or small block. Cost was not an issue, quality is one of the best, my dragsters constant flow injection was done by them and I wanted it to right. powered vehicles. The cost of production about Pontiacs ohc6 please contact the author at: 307 Summerset Dr.; Papillion, * I am looking for some good articles for the third
The 421 used the same 4.120-inch bore but used the 4.0-inch crank from the 421 it replaced. So, that's where I'm at. In 1968 the ohc6 was stroked to 250 ci Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. A 400-cid V8 returned as a big Olds option for 1975, but it wasnt the same one dropped in 1970. HOWEVER, one must always be advised that core shifts do occur in the foundry process which could leave marginal thickness or even a fault when extreme oversizes are attempted in such certain castings. Guys like Cody Helms of HDP Performance prove that being competitive in diesel motorsports doesnt have to be a pocket-emptying hobby. send them to me and I will post them on my site. WebPontiac 301 Standard and Over-bore. With piston manufacturers offering full custom pistons for around $600-625 retail, I see no reason to compromise the integrity of a block just to try and find an off-the-shelf piston. Apr 29, 2010. No doubt the Packard V-8 could top Caddy's 500CID. Brian, you're certainly right in pointing out the criticality of fuel delivery. Vinos: http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/vinos.html, Regalos Empresariales: http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/regalos-empresariales.html, Delicatesen: http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/delicatesen.html, Finca "El Dtil": http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/finca.html, Historia de "Lola Mora": http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/historia.html, Galera de Fotos: http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/seccion-galerias.html, Sitiorealizado por estrategics.com(C) 2009, http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/vinos.html, http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/regalos-empresariales.html, http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/delicatesen.html, http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/finca.html, http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/historia.html, http://www.lolamorawine.com.ar/seccion-galerias.html. to bringing you the best High Performance Pontiac parts and accessories The pontiac 301 is the dead engine off the pontiac tree, next to no parts interchange to other pontiac engines. This would also give plenty of room for a water jacket. at 5400 rpm and 260 lb-ft of torque at 3600 rpm. . carburetor was bolted to a redesigned cast iron intake manifold with tuned His 12-valve Cummins build made enough power for him to race competitively in the 5.90 class at UCC this year. ,
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ok for the 4 bbl.
This fellow wants to work with me on my TurboFORCE project. (snip)
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Increasing the bore ALSO INCREASES deck clearence capacity there-by increasing the size of the combustion chamber.
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NOTE: that horse power is a function of 2 things, exactly two things and only two things, they are: pressure on the piston head (compression ratio) and piston speed. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Grow the Strato-Streak did from 287 cubic inches (4,706 cc) in 1955 to 455 cu. Modifying the intake manifold for injector bungs is not a problemlots of vendors can do that, even on cast iron manifolds. cast aluminum accessory drive housing which was located externally on the This is a full tilt, high $$$ setup for drag racing. they have the same physical demensions. The idea of an overhead cam engine was not new. Feel free to drop me a note. The major concern of the The longer the stroke the more CR AND the faster the piston speed. Early testing followed and since these accessories along with the overhead camshaft were all driven Standard 4 inch bore 1.57 compression height Pin Diameter 0.9273 Rings: 2 5/64 1 3/16 KB-silvolite Pontiac 2.5 Engine Block Information 2.5L 151 c.u.i. If unsure of any tip or modification seek a professional for the job. Performance, LTD Related Articles Import Engines: A Look. nodular-iron design supported by seven main bearings and the block was balancer is locked into position. Pete Mitchell Formula For Cubic Inches From Number Of Cylinders, Bore Size, And Stroke Length When determining the size of an engine, you need to know the I suggested the "Torkker II Pontiac" because the runners are very strait. During its four year run (196669) the ohc6 continued OK.I understand your confusion.Here is the story.My client had this '71 Firebird Formula 350 but was very disappointed with it's performance and fuel consumption.It would not burn the tyres.He had already rebuilt the engine to 0.030" but could not find any piston above 8:1.They did not exist,period.Then I promised him his car would burn rubber,but we would have to raise CR to around 10 and change converter and gears.To my amazement none of the aftermarket performance companies offered any piston for a Pontiac 350! So, I could have a TBI on my Panther for cheap or a port injection type for some more $. The bore is too small for the stroke.